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The Listening Lounge

farrier lessons

By:
slowpaddlesharon
Date:
Please upload your photo 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

I've just finished the join-up lessons with Ada. I would like to throw something out for ideas. Ada mentions in her final segment that the horse after her trim is balanced, comfortable and relaxed, walking squarely. That is true from seeing the videos. How many of you have had their farrier say " give him a day or 2 to get comfortable before you use him; I've taken off a lot and he may be sore or ouchy at first"? I sure have. After seeing Ada does this imply that our shoers are less than correct in their finished work? Or, has Ada left something out of her comments? It makes me want to question my farrier's competency when balancing my boys. Thanks Sharon USA

vicci - UK (North Wales)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed

Dear God, change the farrier !! :-) The horse should never be sore or 'ouchy' afterwards (unless there were very ill beforehand for some reason!). Sorry, may be a tad over reactive there but alarm bells are ringing! I have a lovely farrier who does a great trim and as soon as he's done my boys just trot off as if nothing had happened.
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Now, something has just come to mind....I have my nails done (very occasioonally!) and after one of them my hands/skin were in agony for two days - manicurist was too rough with her file - I guess it's the same thing, too rough/too drastic a cut = discomfort

Nika - Netherlands
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed

I totally agree with Vicci! Unless there are underlying issues with her hooves or legs she should feel more more comfortable, relaxed and balanced, never sore.

Love Vicci's manicure analogy. It's spot on. With a good manicure my nails and hands feel rejuvenated, with a bad one they are sore and I don't want them touched for a couple of days. Guess that's one of the reasons why I do my nails myself now. ;)

Mel - Ramsgate UK
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

Am with Vicci and Nika, if your horse is foot sore after a trim there is a problem with the farrier. I a bare foot trim all my horses based on Ada's measurements and have never had a sore foot. If the horse is comfortable after a trim you should see them licking and chewing after each foot has been trimmed, I don't move onto the next foot until I see the lick and chew so I know they're happy.
Mel
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slowpaddlesharon
Please upload your photo 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

After getting your input I must say I've never tested their comments, I just wait a day or so before riding. However I have never seen them lick and chew after a trim. This is not just one shoer saying this either; most in my area will caution their clients. Maybe it is just to cover themselves, I don't know. I also ride them barefoot and have for years. If I know the terrain will be especially rocky I use boots. My current farrier is coming out next week and I am going to talk with him about the measurements, see if he's willing to take the extra time with this. Thanks, all...Sharon

Mel - Ramsgate UK
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

I've met a lot of bad farriers that cause unwanted damage to the owners horses feet. Even horses in fields near us you can see the misshaped feet where the farriers have not done a proper job. When speaking to the owners their main reply is, 'I don't know about the hoof' so farriers that aren't doing their job properly are taking advantage of a poor job and owners that do not have the knowledge to know differently. We expect someone who's qualified in something to do their job and it's not always the case.
There is a mare I'm caring for her feet at the moment, each foot had a different shape, the bars had not been trimmed and her front left foot had a bell flare of about 2 inches, that was after the owner had just had the farrier our. This horse went from having shoes to bare foot and where the farrier hadn't cut back the bars whilst wearing shoes they'd over grown the frog so she was walking on the bars and the owners couldn't understand why she'd been lame for 18 months. Using Ada's methods has quickly changed the 3 fairly good feet around and the one with the 2 inch bell flare, I've just got to seeing healthy white line and it's been 3 months. The sole on this foot was so thick that I've had to take it back a bit at a time so she didn't become sore. Because of the height of the heel and excess sole her frogs haven't touched the ground properly for years, making them soft to touch and foot sore when on hard ground.
Her feet are nearly at the balanced stage, but it's been years of incorrect trimming that's caused it by a 'qualified' farrier.
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Knowledge is Power and Ada has given us that knowledge :D
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I rasp the feet every couple of weeks, no trimming required, which anyone with knowledge can do to their own horse. Rasping every couple of weeks keeps the hoof wall strong as if they were bare foot in the wild. Keeping good contact with the ground for the frog and sole. :D
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Hope it goes ok for you Sharon and your farrier listens.
Mel
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bahila73
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed

Hi Sharon. What you are talking about here is a "GOOD OLD BOY" brotherhood with farriers and complacency. Most of them know better but just keep on with their below par approach and the horses continue to suffer. As most of you know, I put up with this approach for years and then said NO MORE. I got myself educated with Mr. Pete Ramey and have never looked back. I now trim professionally. If we have done our job correctly, the horse should never be sore.
.
.Bud

bahila73
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed

Hi Sharon. What you are talking about here is a "GOOD OLD BOY" brotherhood with farriers and complacency. Most of them know better but just keep on with their below par approach and the horses continue to suffer. As most of you know, I put up with this approach for years and then said NO MORE. I got myself educated with Mr. Pete Ramey and have never looked back. I now trim professionally. If we have done our job correctly, the horse should never be sore.
.
.Bud

vicci - UK (North Wales)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed

I told my farrier about this thread and he agreed; any farrier that makes a horse sore is worthless and should not be allowed near horses.
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He is a lovely man, while he is qualified as a farrier and of course can make more money out of shoeing he is 100% all for barefoot wherever possible. He asked about Monty's preferences and I told him about Ada Gates and the measurements she explains and he said "Ah...similar to the 'Duckett hoof' principle that he attended lectures on!
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There are good people out there, we just have to hunt for them :-)

Mel - Ramsgate UK
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

Duckett hoof :D more research, thanks Vicci.xox

star
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed

Hi, I'm Ronda. My little mare has had the same ferrier for years and it's been one bad job after another.
Plus my mare does not like him. We live way out and I have looked far for another who is willing to come but they won't. I would love my husband to learn how to do it but he's afraid to hurt her.
I wouldn't care what it costs to get someone here.
I'm frustrated. I chech her feet when he's done and they are so short she has no grip at all.
Poor little Star.

vicci - UK (North Wales)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed

Hi Ronda
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I agree, poor Star. I wonder if any of the following suggestions would be of any help
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1. Have a look at Ada Gates lessons on here so that you are very clear how you want Star's feet to look and how it should be done. Give your farrier some honest feedback that you are not happy with the quality of his work and ask him if he is willing to listen, change his practice, and do what you want - after all you are paying him for a service!If he is not willing, get rid of him. I don't know what country you are in Ronda so don't know if you have a governing body for farriers or some other form of redress but if he is causing welfare issues for horses he needs reporting/stopping.
2. If money really is no barrier - talk to some other farriers and explain to them that you are willing to pay 'over the odds' to get someone to travel the distance and do a good job. Most people will travel if it's worth their while
3. If (2) is not possible, find a farrier you like and take Star to him/her. If she travels well, this maybe the best solution.
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There is a way out of this Ronda but it may need some creative and/or assertive thinking for the sake of Star's well being which you clearly have at the centre of your aim.
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Let us know how you get on. Vicci

vicci - UK (North Wales)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed

How's things going Ronda?

slowpaddlesharon
Please upload your photo 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

something good must have come out of all this. Last week I had my farrier come out to the park and trim my 2. Kava stood well - no kicking or shifting around for 3 out of 4 feet. I needed to school him before the 4th and he remained quiet. When all was done he did lick and chew (in relief?) and I have never seen him do this before. Another myth busted! Sharon

Mel - Ramsgate UK
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

Hi Sharon, I always wait for the lick and chew at each foot, then I know they're happy. Some of my horses will lift their foot and wait for me to go back and check that something's not quite right before the lick and chew. I wouldn't say in relief, but comfort, that's feels good a bit like when we've had a good foot massage.
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Ronda, do go over the Ada Gates lessons as Vicci suggests, http://www.montyrobertsuniversity.com/training/2031188406
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You've already started to think about doing it yourself, so some foot anatomy lessons would be helpful for you to choose. I found the happyhoof youtube channel really good showing how close you can go to different areas of the foot, problems to look out for etc. well worth watching and learning from https://www.youtube.com/user/thehappyhoof/videos
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It's coming into spring now and I'll be trimming and rasping every 3 weeks now to keep their feet at 'wild horse' short over the summer.
Mel
x

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