I have a 25 yr. old QH gelding who is a bear in the round pen. He always thinks he needs to break into a canter even when I release pressure. He also cuts through the round pen at a canter with a buck and I have to move out of the way for fear of getting run over or kicked. I don't know what I'm doing wrong and I don't know how to keep him on the rail. Help?
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I would put more pressure when he does not do what you want: when he starts cantering alone and when he bucks (making noise with the lines). Maybe he has learned: when I canter and when I buck my trainer releases pressure.
Rudi
Hi gansesns,
Your hore seems to think he can be the leader, at least in the roundpen.
Of course I don't know your gelding, but at 25 he'll have a lot of experience doing what he wants, and when he wants it. Did he have a lot of single line lunging, where he had to canter around the pen for a long time?
So your task now is to develope a leadership, with your bodylanguage, your movements, the direction of your movements, your breathing, your stance, your eyes etc, so that he finds a leader in you.
He'll probably have some excess energy, which will inspire him to buck. Sometimes it's good to get rid of that extra energy before trying to "train" anything, but actually working in the roundpen can do that for you.
Using your hands to send him away, should he cut through the pen, but not only your hands, might help you to overcome his attitude to overrule you. Your whole presence
should show him, that he can trust you to be his leader. Use your longline to keep him at the rail of the pen, moving towards him, instead of moving out of his way.
Watch as many video's as possible, for example "Join-up with the Instructors", so you'll get a feeling for what it takes to have your horse respect your space.
Stay safe and keep us posted,
Miriam
I agree with both of you. He's got my number. He learned the first time he did that that I would get out of his way. I've been told that I'm too nice with horses. It's a flaw :o) I am learning to be a better leader. It was confusing to me because the two horses I had before him were amazing at the joining-up process. They stayed on the rail, turned on cue, etc. I suppose they had different "horsenalities." Well, I will be working on my leadership skills today. I'll keep you posted.
Hi gansens,
Please don't forget that Join-up is communication, not training! You want your horse to express it's personality and his feelings. Only this way the two of you can come together.
You will have to learn his language, since he cannot learn yours.
Being nice to horses doesn't mean you let them be the leader, what they like most is someone to trust and feel safe with. This is really being "nice" to a horse. If you don't take the role, he'll have to take it.
Learning is a never-ending process, enjoy it!
Miriam
Hi Gansens,
I would like to add to the great advice given here by Rudi and Miriam. It sounds like there are many aspects to your relationship with this horse that you are working on, but the one I think I might be able to offer some ideas on is the cutting across the round pen.
Would I be correct in assuming that he does it from 6 o'clock (where 12 o'clock is at the gate- I can never remember Monty's clock placement!) straight across to the gate? This a common problem. It is obviously good to be able to get a nice full circle in the round pen from your horse as it reinforces your place as a leader if you can control their feet in such a manner, and it allows them to focus on other things, like communication from you, rather than them thinking "Here comes the gate! Here comes the gate! Got to get to the gate! Got to get to the gate! Quick!" lol.
SO. Since he is 25, be prepared for a very long, slow process! Arm yourself with the longest lunging whip you can find. You may even want 2 of them (one for each hand). Fold the whip up so that you are holding the cracking end in the same hand that is holding the normal handle part of the whip. Pull the cracking end through your hand so that the end of the hard part is bent over a bit, creating a kind of smooth loop at the end. Does this make sense? It's hard to explain lol! Basically you want to make the whip into a long stick. A lunging whip is great because when it's held in this way it gives a bit and doesn't have pokey bits at the end of it. Be sure that the whip is not old and broken.
Allow your horse to run around the round yard. If you 2 have established a relationship where he can do what he wants, you may find that he will simply not respond to strong body language from you that pushes him out when he cuts through. He may even challenge this with a buck in your direction the first few times. Obviously you want to stay safe, but how do you be firm with him and push him out of the circle if doing so endangers your safety? You need a longer arm lol!
Hold the dressage whip out in front of you towards his shoulders as he goes around. Remain still and calm yourself. As he cuts the corner, he will get closer to the whip. If he doesn't touch it the first time around, change the place you are standing so that he does. The idea is that HE runs into the whip. He might be going super fast and carrying on, but that's OK at first. Let him. I guarantee that he will not liked being poked in the shoulder with the end of the whip (you might want to jiggle it up and down a bit as he nears it)! (This is why it can't be old and broken- you don't want pain associated with this, just an invasion of his space).
At this age it might take a fair while, but if you are consistent then he will teach himself that if he cuts the corner he will get poked in the shoulder/ribs. A similar invasion of space can be achieved with the long lines, but I have found a more constant, solid barrier to be more effective with this specific problem.
And be happy with a little bit of progress! Your first goal should be that he starts to not cut so sharply, don't be upset if you don't get him glued to the wall within days! Once you've got him not cutting across so much, you can then work on calming him down in the round yard and then on your communication. A little bit at a time. I hope all this helps. It might not be right for you, but I hope it helps!
:D
After re-reading the posts above, I wanted to echo what Miriam said & say that join-up is communication, & is distinct from a training tool that also uses the round yard, such as getting your horse to travel around it in a nice free circle. I do, however, think that working on achieving a nice free circle would help in a subsequent join-up attempt, but yeah, they are 2 distinct activities, cheers :)
We do have a good relationship. I've been spending more undemanding time with him; one time he stayed by me sharing horse breath, smelling my hair, nudging my arm all within respectable limits. Another time all I got was his butt while he looked at the other horses. So, the last few times I've been out at the farm I've just spent time sitting in pasture watching all the horses. At first he was always last in approaching me, the last time he was right there with me. So, I think just "being" with the horses has helped tremendously. I get tired of always "doing" and I'm sure he does too.
When I first started with horses I was following Monty's method with my previous horse, then as time went on I gravitated to another method with ,Doc, my current horse. Somehow I feel like that other method came between us. I've since decided to go back to "join-up." It feels more natural and its not nearly as confusing.
Oh and he cuts across from 3:00 to 9:00 which totally doesn't make sense. So, tomorrow we'll work together on my leadership and his respect. Will keep everyone posted. Thanks for great feedback.