Hi BillG,
Good for you to have left your former trainer and start looking for a non -violent way of living with horses. As in all we do with horses timing is critical! So if the horse was ahead of you and bit you, be sure to react within 3 seconds, 0,3 seconds are even better, as Monty says.
I guess you'll find a specific situation in which the horse you work with tends to bite. First of all I'd put a Dually halter on him and help the horse respect your personal space. Once the horse knows the Dually halter and respects your space, the "tapping" of the shin with your foot is likely to do the job. This is a form of distraction, never violent. Sometimes you can "help" the horse to bump into your elbow, when he's invasive of your space. Make it his action and your elbow being in the right place at the right moment. Again timing is critical, otherwise the horse wouldn't understand what action and reaction are all about.
The item of hand-feeding might be an issue too. No leading mare would allow another horse to come into her personal space and take her food.
Good luck and tell us how you're doing!
Miriam

Hi all, I recently bought my first own horse, a young colt who bites. Interesting: he didn't bite during the first let's say five to eight times I worked with him or just walked him around. When I started Dually work he was very hard to move backwards and very quickly started to answer the presure with a very quick, 0,3 sec :-), and hard bite into the arm that was pushing him back on the Dually. He reared too. I had to stop and make a new plan because my sending him back as a consequence to his biting was answered with more biting and for him it was a nice ping pong game. It turned out that he is very sensitive on the forehead and the bony part of the nose - the part where the Dually puts presure on. Might be that I started also out asking him too much. He appears strong and healthy but was just 15 month old when we started working. I had to find a way to keep him out of my way and move him, let him work and have fun too. The snow came and there was no covered Round Pen and no arena so I agreed to have the (no former) owner help and show me what she would do. She is on the Parelli side and brought him into the pasture into the deep snow, did all the "friendly games" and then asked him to circle around her. He wore the Parelli halter and she use that long rope which is connected to the halter with a haevy kind of hook. "Hero" started to buck and run like he would really have fun and came then to a nice canter and when asked by her back into the circle. She used that "carrot stick" to block him from comming too close to her when she could tell he would bite but did not hit him at any time. Well, I started learning to use this new equipments because I wanted to give him something to do but just walking and experiencing some things that we found around the place. He defenetly needed some excercise and I could not give it to him on the long line as he first has to learn to accept the girth and then the long lines - on good footing in an enclosed space. I felt fine with the solution because that rope is very long and should touch the ground when the horse circles around so there is just little pulling power to the inside on the head. Now I am working on desensertising Hero's head and nose so he can accept some presure and I am just using my hand at the moment. I also spent time with him watching the little herd and quickly understood that biting is a very common and even important piece of communication between Hero and his friends. I also could not have been there in time often to kick his chin but I learned quickly, that a rubber brush would do to be bitten, I just had it there in time when he turned around to get me. wow- what was that ? I also learned to move his head and shoulder as an immediate negative consequence and I can make a difference now between a hard bite and a loving and playing bite which I answer much softer. It is a very difficult issue to deal with I think because it hurts so much and one is so hurt too in the heart! I had to learn that colts bite more that fillies and I am working on coming back to the Dually and have him walking by my shoulder without beeing nervous that the next stroke is coming soon. That I found out is so important: to be brave enough and trust him that he can relax and behave and will not bite when he walks close to your shoulder. I will use the ellbow and let you know how it works. I hope my experience helps and I appreciate your comments ! Thank you. VioBerlin

Thanks for the input. I'll try blocking with my elbow...but if your back is turned and a horse in a stall bites you..which has happened to me, is there anything you can do after the fact to correct the behavior? I realize if you wait too long he wont understand, but if you do nothing it feels like your condoning it.

Interestingly enough that trainer i was telling you about, old school...would sit in the ring yelling while she nursed an Irish coffee at 10am...when i told her it wasn't working out, she said that i was a 'nothing,' and I'd never be a trainer, and no other trainer would want to work with me. There's a Monty Roberts Lesson here, that Monty didnt even have to teach. People who mistreat horses mistreat people as well, just as Monty's father mistreated him. So i'm glad to be rid of her...and looking forward to meeting a good trainer.

Hi BillG,
In the case you describe, when you're in a vulnerable position with your back towards the horse's head, it is ofcourse difficult to react quick enough. That's why you should establish a clear respectsituation before exposing yourself this vulnerable. Did you do Join-up with your horse? If so, do Dually-work afterwards, to help your horse find respect for your personal space. Remember that in a herd this is a constant item between horses, who comes first, who has to move out of the way for whom etc. The hacking-order is a natural thing for a horse, so become the leader in your herd of 2!
Then when things are clear between the 2 of you, trust comes in two directions, the horse trusts you and you can trust the horse to not take advantage of you behind your back.
Forget your bad trainer-experience and look forward to learning from this Uni and your own hands-on work with the horses. Of course there are Certifies Instructors available to coach you on your way to better horsemanship.
Miriam

I think what others are trying to say, is that you should try and avoid this situation all together until you have built a better respectful relationship with this horse.

That being said, should it happen, I would turn around quickly, eyes on eyes, and raise your hands while saying firmly "back up." This will give you the immediate negative consequences for his actions. I would then take him out and do some work on the ground with the emphasis on being respectful of your space.

I too, have had bad experiences with instructors/ "trainers." I feel for you, I guess my best advice would be to let the horses teach you, and obviously continue to use this wonderful tool to guide you. Good luck!

Kim

See in my particular situation, its not my horse. When i volunteered at the Rescue, you'd go to grab a horse. We had 90 some horses, varying personalities, etc.. Sometimes you'd go to feed a horse, or be walking past and it would just happen. Its not anything i could've avoided at the time.

The horse i foster, is really good that way. I even got him picking up his feet now. Since he was a starvation case, he used to be real pushy at feed, almost aggresive...and now using Monty's techniques, he's a lot better.

Thanks all for the great advice! I really appreciate it.

Thank you Kim.... your comments were helpful. I am finding my new horse invading my personal space, trying to bite me when i am putting his rug on and threatening to kick me with his front legs, when I am in his stable. I think he is impatient to get out to grass but today is very stormy in Scotland and I feel he is safer inside. I think he has other ideas. I will use the eye contact with raised hands in the stable, then turning away to show I am not a threat to him.

I have not done join up yet. I am trying to memorise the process so that it all flows and I still need to rehears the throwing and coiling of the rope. I think it qwill be a few weeks before I will be competent to do this... I want to do it right first time and not make a mess of it. I will let you know how I get on...

thanks again for your helpful comments.

Margaret-Anne

Margaret-Anne
What you have described is a very dangerous horse. If a horse tries to strike (kicking with his front feet) and bite he is saying I have no respect for you and you are a threat to me. Please be very careful around your horse and I would have someone with you when you go to work him. As everyone has pointed out so well,you need to do Join Up before you go any further. If you cannot get your horse to respect you you will always be in danger when working him.

My suggestion of having someone with you when working your horse could also help you with Join Up if you are unsure of all the signs the horse needs to give you.
Good luck, be careful, and doing give up!
Cheers