ok the first time i used a monty roberts join up with my horse it worked i guesss. I mean like.... i got him to follow up and join up before with different methods but of course monty roberts method is better. So when i was sending my horse away, and he was like whoa i dont like that, and so he makes tighter circle throws his head out to me with ears laid back like he was almost tryin to make me stop, and should i join up with him again just to make sure i will do it right the next time, and so he will stop the aggrivated attitude... i mean he stopped doing it after a few minutes. But is this aggressive thing something negative that should be fixed, and this only happen like a few times during join up.
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I have commented on this once before and will most likely cop some criticism for what I say but if your horse is in tune with you already there is really no need for Join Up - and despite what people may think this is not a negative comment towards the process or Monty. If your horse is connected with you already he may not understand why all of a sudden you chase him away and it can be confusing for him when he already wants to be with you. You haven't mentioned the relationship you have with your horse but perhaps this may be something to think about. You may be doing things the wrong way but its sounds to me like he is trying to tell you something alright. Cheers Jan
Hi all,
there is nothing wrong with sending your horse away, even in a good relationship.
It depends on the pressure you apply, how big a reaction you'll get from your horse.
From what I read above, my suggestion would be to lower the level of your own energy, so the horse doesn't feel offended, and still knows he's supposed to go away.
Remember your role would be that of a leading mare in a herd, she's telling others all the time when and how to move, without getting an aggressive reaction.
Please watch as many Join-ups you can find on this Uni and let someone video you doing your Join-up, then compare the level of energy and the gestures you see the horse reacting on. Horses are reactive animals, try to open the path of least resistance for them and you'll find harmony.
Did you read "From my hands to yours"? I read it over and over again and still find new aspects in it.
Hope this helps,
Miriam
thank you. me and my horse and training is not going well, because I been on vacation for about 10 days so he was really cranky and energetic when I was riding him I quitted after a few min, cause it was thundering. But, im sorry to say I still wonder if Monty's methods are going to work with my horse, and I have watched and tried that stopping method Monty was talking about and telling your horse to go forward, and my horse did not like that at all! I have bin taught almost all my life until now training methods that used forcing, getting control, and showing the horse your the boss. I really agree with Monty on all the stuff he says, and im sorry im just getting discouraged and wondering if his methods will work with my horse and his type of personality, cause im thikin that his methods doesn't work with all horses, cause my hose is a little stubborn and does NOT respect space
Archtemp1 the most important thing when you are training your horse is that you use consistency, are confident and kind and by doing this you will show him what a good leader you are (not necessarily the alpha horse but someone they trust) and they will want to work with you. It is also important that you get your groundwork right before you get on him again ensuring that he leads well, will do hindquarter and forequarter yields, backs and is listening and you are communicating well with him. When all this is happening riding is a natural progression as you already have the ground rules in place. Good luck for the future, Jan
ill do it! But, its really hard to feel confident on him cause today he almost ran me over and tried bighting me while I was on him, and he bucked once. SO Im just a little nervous when I get on him but, ill do the ground work and watch those videos, and ill will take your guy's advice and put it into my horses training thanks so much. and does monty show all the ground work that is necessarily totrain my horse in his videos?
well ill just get the book!! sorry for askin so many questions!
You need to stay off him while you are nervous - he will know you are and will act up because of your nervousness - all part of what I was saying earlier about being confident around him - you can't put that on with a horse - they know exactly how you are feeling. Keep working with him at ground level until you have respect and feel comfortable doing all you need to do with him from the ground before you attempt getting on him again - no matter how long it takes - it will pay off in the end for both of you
Hi archtemp,
I commented on your other thread I guess I should have been paying attention to this one. When doing join up with your horse don't be afraid to send him away with gusto. Square up on him and don't allow him to come in until he has given the appropriate signals that he needs to give, (sometimes it's difficult to get them to lower their head) this sign isn't always given so keep that in mind. It does not matter that your horse does not like it he needs to understand that he does not control the relationship and you do. He is used to controlling you...not you him. This is why he is acting out, but once you establish yourself as the "head horse" he will respect you and become much more submissive. The process of training a horse takes time and patience, you will have good days and bad days. Try not to get discouraged, old habits die hard but eventually your horse will make the necessary changes and you will both learn together. I had a horse very much like your horse and we had to learn together it took me a couple of years to turn him into a great horse but it happened. I was not very consistent with his training so it took me much longer but by the time I sold him he was practically a kids horse he was so gentle. Monty's methods work on EVERY horse and they will work with yours I promise! Just don't give up and keep asking questions it will pay off in the end.
Hi archtemp1,
Monty askes people who doubt if it might work for their horse: " Do you you he'd do it for me?" When the answer is yes (which is always the case), Monty states: "Then he should do it for you, too! Just watch for the differences between what I do and what you do."
So please seek a good trainer, preferably a Certified Instructor in Monty's methods, and start training yourself and your horse. Having yourself on video is a great help, but sometimes you need someone to point out where and when you make mistakes. We all started this way, trial and error, no need to get discouraged!
I agree, that you should not ride your horse for the moment, get the relationship clear first, before you get in trouble...
Please keep asking questions, this is where we all come from, and never stop learning!
Stay safe,
Miriam
Hi archtemp1
I've read your posts and you have had some wonderful advice so I wont repeat anything but there is one thing I think you may need to think about. It seems you need to slow down. It all feel a bit of a rush :-) You said that you understand Montys methods and thats great, but understanding them in your head is only the first step. These methods are not just a series of tasks to be achieved they are a way of life for ever (and other ideas as they come to you). The ideas have to be absorbed into your heart, soul, and skin, and you will add and discard many different things over time. I'm sorry if I sound old to you, being 12 years old I understand you are keen to 'get on with it' but I think you are trying to do too many things at once. I agree with Jan about Join Up, whereas I appreciate what others are saying about sending a disrespectful horse away we need to be careful that it is not an irritated and confused horse as a result of us not being clear and calm about what we are trying to do. As others have said, watch the videos and read the book over and over again - once is not enough - practise over and over again, don't ride him until the groundwork and relationship is solid. Always bear in mind what your horse needs. Our horses are not just tools for us to practice lots of different stuff on, they are our partners and we must offer them what they need to be with us. Ok, end of lecture hahaha (I do ramble on a bit sometimes!!). Enjoy your horse, spend time, slow down and keep us posted :-) Good luck.
Thanks Vicci for understanding what I am trying to say - I appreciate your understanding very much. There is nothing wrong at all with sending a horse away if behaviour is not ideal but Join Up CAN be confusing for a horse who does already connect with you and can cause irritation. I agree with Vicci that you may be proceeding a little too fast and trying to teach too much at once. Slow steps will reap wonderful rewards and no matter how long each step takes just go with it to make sure it is right. My comments about Join Up, despite what some people obviously think are not against what Monty is doing, but based on evidence that for some horses it is unnecessary as the connection between human and horse is already established. It is always good to be open to other ideas and other opinions, nothing in life and horses is black and white when you are dealing with individual personalities. Monty himself has said that if you can find a better way of doing things that works and is non violent then that is a good thing for the horses. Well my time on the Uni is coming to an end next month so my disruptive influence (LOL) will no longer be around. I do hope you stick with it archtemp1 and hope you and all the others out there achieve the best you can with your horses in a totally non-violent way without using artificial aids - just your kindness, leadership, voice and body language. Good luck, Jan
Jan I love your comments about join up. It seems that it is very important to understand your horse and his personality with respect to join up. Some horses definitely do not need join up if they are already joined up to you and respectful etc. These horses can get very confused, alarmed and worried when you try to send them away from you - my Uggs is one of these. He was ostensibly broken in by a "monty" type trainer so knew join up when I first bought him as a 3 year old. Huge questions about his breaking as he couldn't accept you front on at all and I had to back up to him to catch him. Sometimes he would just go into automatic join up around me as I moved towards him in the paddock and would only stop when I turned my back - at that time I didn't know much about Monty's methods but quickly understood that he needed me to turn my back to him. Two crazy, no nonsense traditional stock men tried to take a broken coat off him at one stage while I was in Melbourne and of course they had no understanding of how he had been trained. Drove him into a corner, roped him, ear twitched him etc. and ruined him for life just to get a coat off that would have fallen off by itself. I have mentioned this previously on forum. Since then he has always been spooked but is very joined up to me and hates to have me away from him. Currently he is with Tricka in a rented paddock as our paddocks here are in a boggy mess with the rain and wet and as they are steep I was worried that Tricka would damage her back again. I see them twice a day but my heart breaks each time I leave as Uggs stands at the gate as I drive away otherwise he seems happy and it is great flat 11 acre area. When I had my two girls I am voluntarily helping here for a session awhile ago I stupidly thought I would demonstrate join up with Uggs and Tricka. First time with Uggs for many years - I sent him away so softly but he was immediately terrified and would have jumped out of the ménage if I had not quickly turned and called so he could come straight back to me. I was very upset with myself for scaring him so much! Tricka on the other hand needs the discipline of join up every so often and is very laid back about it all and needs to be moved out with strong action - lots of shaking of the lunge rope etc. It was at least a good learning lesson for the girls to see how differently the two horses responded but I will never try it again with Uggs.
Archtempt. given this is your thread I feel I should comment to you too. I think you are doing wonderfully and really trying with your horse but I am worried that he sounds to be a little too much for a 12 year old to handle. Just worried about your safety as unfortunately strong natured horses like yours tend to be more disrespectful to children than adult just because of your size. Sucks doesn't it. If you have watched Montys' "Join up with Children" you will notice that Monty stays in the round pen while the girl is attempting join up with this very well trained quite horse. Is there an adult that could be in the round pen with you while you attempt join up with your horse? You would need the adult to watch Monty's video with the join up session so that they would know where to stand and what to do. All the very best - this is a big challenge and you have been given some excellent advice above from other members.
Hey Maggie, very interested in your comments regarding Uggs and it does back up what I have heard and seen with a few other horses. Appreciate your feedback and it also brings us again to the point - things are not just black and white - there are individual personalities that need to be dealt with in different ways. Keeping our minds open regarding training can be one of the greatest gifts we give our horses. Cheers Jan
NEVER stop asking questions! That's how you learn. No matter how good a book is, you can always learn by asking questions.