Hi all,
I tried to join up with my horse today, i will give you a little history on him first. He is 6 years old, i have had him for a month now and generally all is ok, not great, not bad, but ok, he hates his shoulder area and back being touched, he will try and bite you, when you put the saddle on he fidgets and tries to bit and lifts his hind legs up. This isnt a major problem and im working on that daily. I cant ride him out on his own (even though i was told he would) he naps back to the yard, head between legs, little rears etc, something i havent had chance to work with him yet.
So anyway, i have done join up in the past with approx 20 other horses, and yes they are all different, but not had the problems i came across today.
I have set up a round pen in a corner of a field, bought him in, did orientation, went to 2 o'clock and sent him away (which i didnt think he would but he did, all going well, we did 1 lap and then at 9 o'clock he was walking, he was very difficult to keep him going, always slowing down at the gate, kept him going for a few laps (buy which time im shattered as i had to run behind him, slapping rope on me didnt work, throwing line behind didnt work, he would kick out) tried to turn him between 10 and 2 and nothing, the only place i could turn was 9, and that was his choice. went on the other rein, turned again at 8 -9, few more laps, i had the ear, the smaller circle, not the head dropping and not the chewing, so anyway as i was tired i tried join up, turned my body, lower my arm across, and he turned in to me straight away, he woulndt come to me, so persisted a little more, didnt work so i sent him away again. about 7 laps later on one rein as he would turn, i got the smaller circle, ear, licking lips :-) but not head drop. tried join up again, he turned and walked a couple of pace to me, i took a couple towards him, visa versa, until we met, i praised and tried follow up, i got 2 steps and he wouldnt move any more. i didn't persist any further as i was probably more tired than he was at this stage lol.
Has anyone got any comments, how do you get them to keep going, (never had the problem before) Would it be too soon to try again tomorrow, or should i wait, with others i normally leave it a week, i'm just having difficulty reading this horse, and i want to do what's best for him.
sorry for the extremely long post
Hey Shell,
Monty says that when you start working with a horse you should work him every day for 6 days straight, so you can and should do join-up with him tomorrow. I would suggest when working with this horse that you square up on him and keep eyes on eyes to keep him moving away from you. It sounds like he is trying to control you versus you controlling him. His feet are barely moving and yours are running fast behind him, he's actually controlling your feet, which means he's controlling you, especially when he's turning when he wants and not when you want him too. Take control and move his feet, you may not get him to drop his head but each time you should get a better join-up.
Let us know how it goes,
Kleinne
Hi Shell - I think you did really well to get as far as you did. As Klienne suggests try it a few more times now and I am sure he will soon understand what is required of him. Good luck - he sounds quite a handful so plenty of work with the dually especially when saddling him. Given I am always working with my horses alone I have found tying another shorter lead rope onto a discipline ring on the dually while he is tied up with the ring under his chin is a great idea. This way if they move at all while you are handling and saddling etc you can immediately discipline them. The rope tied on the discipline ring should be short enough so that he doesn't stand on it with his front hooves. I used a dog lead initially but once they know to stand still you can just use another lead as it is no longer a problem if the end is on the ground as they shouldn' move!! If you are handling his back hooves then it is handy to have the lead on the discipline ring long enough so that you can again give it a tug if he moves his hoof at all while you are handling them. Bit awkward when you are by yourself so if you have a helping hand then it is better to have them hold him with the dually and discipline accordingly while you work on the hooves. Being an ex race horse he should be OK with his hooves so should just need to be reminded of his manners.
Have you had him vetted? You mentioned the shoulder and back sensitivity. Perhaps he's in some discomfort?
Hi Shell
Good advice given here by others. Something else you could try is to video yourself doing a join up with him, then sit and watch it several times, and scrutinise both your body language and that of the horse, and his reactions to you. You might just pick up a clue as why he is not behaving as expected - as KW mentions, perhaps some discomfort, or something too subtle to see when you are in the midst of it. Sometimes viewing a situation from the outside helps - lots of other people on the forum have videod themselves and the feedback is good. If you are feeling brave, you could even put it on YouTube so that others can view it and offer advice.
Thank you all for your advice, its been very helpfull. I will continue to do join up with him for the next 5 days as suggested and hopefully improve each time. Yes he is controlling me, then me him and so on, so with practice this hopefully shall be overcome. I didnt have him vetted, i have checked his back and he doesnt seem in pain, he moves well and lifts his barrel and back when in work, i will get him vetted, i feel that at some stage in the last year he has had a bad fitting saddle as he has old rub marks on his withers, so i think its more to do with he has been in pain in the past and associates the saddle as something that will hurt. I have bought a very light saddle which fits him and gives good clearance on his withers, freedom for spine to move, so working with him to give him confidence that a saddle is not a painfull piece of equipment, he is certainly better to handle now than he was 4 weeks ago, so fingers crossed on the saddle front.
join up - i am going to get me partner to video me this weekend which i think will be invaluable, i did read last night some comments on other peoples join up and one was were someone was making snake noices, must admit i did that last night, :-/, tried clicking, various other noices etc. never even thought at the time they would associate it to a snake, but of course they would, wont be doing that again lol. And yes if im brave enough to put on youtube i will and then wait for the comments, all of which i have appreciated. Quick question, can i ride him or is it best for the next 5 days just to do join up with him? Thank you all
Thank you all for your advice, its been very helpfull. I will continue to do join up with him for the next 5 days as suggested and hopefully improve each time. Yes he is controlling me, then me him and so on, so with practice this hopefully shall be overcome. I didnt have him vetted, i have checked his back and he doesnt seem in pain, he moves well and lifts his barrel and back when in work, i will get him vetted, i feel that at some stage in the last year he has had a bad fitting saddle as he has old rub marks on his withers, so i think its more to do with he has been in pain in the past and associates the saddle as something that will hurt. I have bought a very light saddle which fits him and gives good clearance on his withers, freedom for spine to move, so working with him to give him confidence that a saddle is not a painfull piece of equipment, he is certainly better to handle now than he was 4 weeks ago, so fingers crossed on the saddle front.
join up - i am going to get my partner to video me this weekend which i think will be invaluable, i did read last night some comments on other peoples join up and one was were someone was making snake noices, must admit i did that last night, :-/, tried clicking, various other noices etc. never even thought at the time they would associate it to a snake, but of course they would, wont be doing that again lol. And yes if im brave enough to put on youtube i will and then wait for the comments, all of which i have appreciated. Quick question, can i ride him or is it best for the next 5 days just to do join up with him? Thank you all
Yes you can ride him, especially since he's been ridden before. You can ask a bit more of him than you would if he were just being started for the first time and had never had a rider before. Something else I forgot to mention in my first post to help keep him going in the round pen is to wave your arm with open fingers at him.
Hope all goes well,
Kleinne
Hi kleinne
thank you for your advice, i didn't ride in the end today, tried to join up again. well it started off better than yesterday, i got 5 circuits and turned at 10 o'clock, brilliant i thought, and then all hell let loose, a mare in the stable called and he flipped! he just went from 5 to 8 and back and forth by the gate, tried to move him on, hand open etc, i had rearing, backing up, kicking out at me for about 3 minutes and then he jumped to fence and went to the gate exiting the field :-(. So as you can imagine, not impressed, need to find somewhere else to put up a pen, not that easy where i am. anyway i put him back in the stable and gave him some fuss, i was thoroughly disappointed and was ready to give up. I had a talk with myself (as you do) i tried join up on my daughters pony, which i havent done for a year. He was as good as gold, sent away, turned in all the right places, all 4 signs given, joined up and followed up. faith has been restored :-) But at a complete loss on what to do with the big horse. I get the feeling with him, 1 minute he shows signs of being stubborn, then wanting to please, then he looks scarred (he hates to long line and whips), his signs are so varied.
Shell
Wow! That's scary, so sorry things went so wrong today. I don't blame you for being disappointed, I can't believe he jumped the fence...yikes! It sounds like you need an 8 foot fence. I put my round pen in a back corner where the horses can't see each other. It seems to work well for me but I understand having limited space to work with. Don't give up, I know you can do it. I was working to saddle a horse in the round pen today and he's a bit cinchy, especially today for some reason he kept moving over on top of me every time I would try to tighten the cinch. Unfortunately before I knew it he had me pinned up against the fence...not good! I thought to myself that was stupid to put myself in that position I need to stand in the middle not next to the fence.
Stay safe,
Kleinne
Im giong to have a word with the landlord when i catch him in a good mood, to see if i can put an area up away from any distractions, so fingers crossed. Sounds like neither of us had a very good day, but we do all this for fun and love, and there are always bad days, making sure you put it down to experience and remembering not all days are bad is a key thing to remember. Better luck for both of us today/tomorrow, although i probably wont get chance today as we have thunderstorms for the next 2 days!!
Scary stuff somtimes our horses they are big weights and when they bail us up its relly hard to keep the adrnaline down { lessons} its seems every time we work with our horses we learn somthing kleinne we are always learning glad you didnt get hurt .
Monty makes join up look like a snap but thats what happens after years of experience. I have just had to take my round yard down as oscar has decided with his wet weateher coat on he can push the neighbours fence down so i have set up an electic line to give him a little kick! but now no round yard and i relly need to do a few more join ups with oscar do you think if i put oscar on a loose long line I know we dont lunge but im kinda stuck at the moment ?Or can you do join up in the field your not going to get the circles but is moving the horse away and geting the sighns geting what you need?cheers. shell that all sounded scary as but glad you were reinspired by your pony it is possible and very rewarding!!
Hallo! Kelly Marks have a wonderful piece on x racers on horseandcountrytv.co.uk!
Our x racers have many time been longed for hundreds of laps, never had anyone listening in on them. Good Luck! Warmest Ann/sweden
Hello,
I have been working with an exracehorse.. he is feirce. And the same shoulder twitching and sensativity. I have not attempmted join-up yet because he feightems me a bit and that will inform aeverything we do togather. So I am working on building trust with him. By thorugh touch and he is getting much calmer and much less figity and twitchy. I will attempt joinup when I am sure I can win..
good luck. The racehorses in the USA are not taught manners they are vet aggresive until they learn not to be.. it is learned behavior I would go much slower if I were you..
take care be safe.
richandi
Thank you to all of you for your comments. Well i am very pleased to say, i have had now 2 good join ups with my tb so i thought i will would give him a go on the long lines, oh my good he was so good, he did everything i asked him, i was over the moon :-) the only thing which is a little difficult is starting off, and getting the outside line over his hind quarter as hes afraid of the line, so lots and lots more work to build up confidence in the lines. At this moment i am very pleased with him - unfortunatley he has now managed to put a hole in his foot yesterday!!! so no work for a while, but with prior work now given he is a lot easier to handle to give first aid care, hes even hugging me!
Good for you, that's so exciting to finally achieve join-up with him and get such a good response. I was working with the horse I told you pinned me up against the fence and the owners stopped by to see how things were going. They asked me if I had ridden him yet and I told them no. I've been hesitant to get on him because the last time he was ridden he went over backwards on the guy. I wasn't sure what his reaction would be and I wondered if he might be in pain. Anyway, I said lets try if one of you will ride I'll move him out. Needless to say the minute she tried to get on him he whirled his butt around to her like he was going to kick her and put his ears back. He was obviously unhappy, after a couple of attempts that failed I asked her husband to let me try and to give me a leg up, he let me mount him but he still wasn't happy. They said he's never acted this way before so I'm going to assume he is in pain and I told them to get him vet checked and maybe consider a chiropractor. I'm glad they were there to witness this and I hadn't tried to do it alone.
Hi Shell - fantastic news and well done with achieving a good join up. It does make such a difference to their outlook doesn't it. He has probably been lunged quite a bit in the past with a single line and whip so he will naturally be very wary of the second line as he may see it as the whip. Take it slowly and just keep on rolling the second line over his back - incremental learning - until he is totally relaxed with it before you try again. You have made so much progress so it would be a pity to freak him out with long lining too soon just do another join up in a couple of days and in the meantime work on getting him used to the long lines all over him. Do hope his hoof is OK soon. Hi Klienne the horse you are currently handling sounds to have a few issues too. Given he is not yours and he went over backwards with his last rider please don't allow the owners to pressure you into riding him too soon. If he does play up when you get on him you may be badly injured and given he is not your horse the owners may try to blame you for his bad behaviour too. If I was you I would just keep working with him on the ground. Get the owners to have him vet checked and then when you feel he is ready to mount have one of the owners ride him first - keeps you safe and also means they can't turn on you if he plays up. If he behaves OK when the owner is riding him then you can start training him further as his rider. It is not worth the risk otherwise!
I agree Maggie, I was unsure of whether or not he may be in pain, he didn't act in pain but that can be deceiving. I never work alone if I'm mounting a horse and told the owner I needed her help as the rider. I used my dummy rider on him several times without a bit of trouble, but the dummy rider doesn't have much weight. I was really glad they were there to see how he reacted. They're my neighbors and friends of mine so I'm not worried about them blaming me for problems with the horse. It was obvious to them that this isn't his normal behavior and that he must be in pain so I told them until he's seen a chiropractor or vet there I wasn't willing to do anything thing more with him. They agreed, he's such a sweet and gentle little horse I'm hoping he didn't do any permanent damage to himself.
Dear shell
I have read the story of your problem the first time today. I think you are doing very well. This horse needs time and patience.
Rudi