Hi cristinatutu,

Safety is always the first goal. May I ask you to describe the steps you go through leading up to the release please? Is it after an orientation? Do you unclip and release at "2 o'clock" in the round pen so that your horse tends to turn right toward the gate? 

sure! so indeed, I do the orientation and then release at 2 o'clock but initially she would not leave. then when I send her off, she does that but for a while she kicks and she speeds a lot, even cutting through the circle - then she changes direction at her own convenience - as obviously I try to keep a bit of distance and she seems to be unpredictable. she is clearly a dominant type of mare and I started working with a dually one month ago which seemed to pay off significantly in terms of her respecting my space, standing still etc but join up is not really working (or only partially working for now - she does not seem very interested for the first 10-15min). should she be long lined before trying join up as a rule?

thanks so much - any tip is helpful - happy new year!

From Monty's text book, From My Hands to Yours: "I am prepared to release the animal and begin the process of communication. I unsnap the long line and step away toward the rear of the horse. I do not allow even so much as a glance toward the horse’s eyes. Taking care not to enter the kick zone, when I am at a point directly perpendicular to the rear flank of the horse, I then go into action. 

I snap my eyes on the eye of the horse. I pierce his pupils with my gaze. Squaring my shoulders, I cause my body to assume a military stance of attention. I swing the line coils, slapping my shoulders, first one side, then the other, and the horse flees virtually every time. As my student runs away from me, I pitch the long line toward the rear quarters. My intention is to convey to the horse that I am perfectly happy with his decision to flee."

Hi cristinatutu and Debbie,
From what I read, I sense there might be a "habituation" at hand here.
Join-Up is a means of communication between two species, where the horse has the freedom to express itself. It can never be a "training". Monty suggests 5 or 6 Join-Ups and then use these principals of communication for the life of the horse.
Your mare seems dominant, she might also be confused, by going through the same procedure too often. When entering her stall or paddock, use the principals of Join-Up, to invite her to be with you. We can only change our own behavior, when looking to change the behavior of the horse, all she does is react to our action.
It never hurts to longline a horse, but it's not a preparation to Join-Up.
What your looking for is trust.
Please keep us posted,
Miriam 

thanks! indeed, trust is the key thing. will definitely keep you posted.

Good morning all;  I have not been on the forum for a while.  After reading about the problems written above with the join procedure, the first thing that popped into my mind was about the thoughts that Cristinatutu held in the mind as this procedure began.  I have always been of the belief that when teaching a horse a new way of doing something that we, as trainers, need to be very black and white with our thoughts as to what we are asking the horse to do.  The very first order of business is to visualize the horse moving in a direction that we have designated away from us.  [the sending exercise].  This needs to be coupled with a VERY STRONG intention of thought focused on the area just behind the ribs and just to the fore of the rear leg.  I call it the" V" area.  The horse will feel this penetration of intention because this where the big cats focus when they are about to launch an attack.  This action will cause any horse to move its feet especially if its coupled with the tossing out of the longe line.  By breaking down your thought patterns into pictures, you become very black and white as to your intention for the horse.  You will see that the dominatcy of the horse will not enter into this exercise with this kind of approach.  Once the horse is moving, you have accomplished two important principles of training, the sending and the moving of the feet in the direction of your choice.  Again, I stress that you cannot be soft in this approach as you are now in the role of a leader.  I would suggest some preparatory thought before entering into the round pen to begin this exercise to get your mind right, because the horse will know immediately as you enter into his space.  

After about three to four revolutions in one direction, step out in front of the horse and ask for a change in direction.  If you can keep your thoughts separated and picture the change of direction in your mind, the horse will instantly comply.  Now your intention will be penetrating the opposite side of the horse with same force that you started on the original side.  After three to four revolutions [your call] begin softening the power of your stare and observe your horse.  This is the time that you are telling him that he can come down somewhat to a slower gait.  When he does, step out in front and turn once again in the original direction.  Now you can relax your intentional stare even more with idea that you will be giving him an invitation to be with your energy.  the very next time that you step out infront of your horse lower your head and shoulders in a more submissive posture and hold the picture in your mind of him coming to you and settling.

The main thing here is being very black and white with your thoughts and give your horse a reason to do what you are asking of him.  Remember that horses learn in layers, which means to me that we have to focused on smaller bits of information.  For most of u,s it means a retraining in how we present information.  I hope this will help you..

Good luck 

Bud

Very nicely put, Bud! Gave me a very clear picture of how to  do it.